Cold Start Problem on Diesel - Please Help!!!!

[shaunlfc1]

Hey,

Need some advice urgently on my 405 1.9 TD 1994.

Partner got in it Monday morning, preheated her, car fired up straight away, drove off got 20 yards, and the car stalled.

Tried starting again but nothing, just the car cranking over. But she did notice no GLOW PLUG light on the dash from this point.

I looked this up in Haynes, and it suggested that no glow plug light means a faulty "fuel stop solenoid".

So, I've fitted a brand new BOSCH solenoid, and still no joy, no glow plug warming light, and just the car trying to start but with no joy.

So off I cycled to the Peugeot Breakers, they suggested it can only be the Glow Plug Relay, which is located on the side of the battery.

So went back home, swapped for second hand but tested relay, with both fingers crossed, started ignition, but still no glow plug light.

The chap at the breakers suggested I put a wire between the POSITIVE on the Battery to the glow plugs themselves, for 10 seconds, take off and try turning car.

Hey presto she fired up, with no problems. So this eliminated the glow plugs being duff, although they are only 3 weeks old.

With car now running, I took no chances and took car down to Breakers, for further investigations.

With a tester they tested that there was power going to the relay, and all seemed fine, but still no pre-heat from the ignition.

We tried 4 different relays, with the same effect, no pre-heat at all, no clicking noises when the ignition was turned nothing, although the tester showed power going to it.

So, I have a 405 TD that has brand new glow plugs, and fuel stop solenoid and does following:

Fires up from cold, when by-pass relay with wire straight from battery to glow plugs.

Turns off fine when turn key to "off", so the solenoid must be working.

Relays that have power going to them, but don't seem to be sending power to glow plugs, or something is stopping this from happening.

I need answers, I know there's not much left to try or suggest, as everything we've done has eliminated virtually everything.

The car has been 100% reliable til Monday (29th October), always needed pre-heating, even with new glow plugs, regardless of ambient temparature, apparently that is the 1.9's trait??? Glow Plug light has always worked prior to Monday, the car has never stopped suddenly before like this.

Please any suggestions would be great.....

Have a good weekend,

Shaun

[frank]

have you checked the fuses?

[shaunlfc1]

Yes I've checked fuese inside car in drivers foot well, and the fuse box in front of the battery in engine bay. All seem fine.

Are there any other places, and fuses?

Cheers for help.....

[frank]

have you got an igintion live going to it? if i remember they have to have one obviously.

[shaunlfc1]

Glow plug relay was tested by the mechanic at the breakers, and power was going to that, so assume ignition is sending power to it.

Could the wiring from the relay to the plugs be faulty, is it known for these to break down?

Would this of caused the initial stalling of the engine on Monday? Surely once the car is running the glow plugs and associated system is not employed further by the engine and therefore how can is cause the engine to stall?

Could I simply put a manual switch in the car which would turn on power to GP's, have a inline relay/timer or use existing relay and ECU which would cut power to GP's and away we go?!! Simply not use key and the ignition to start pre-heating system?

Ideas on that, at the moment this sounds if possible, the cheapest way round the problem, as simply do not have money for paying a garage to solve problem.

Cheers,

Shaun

[oldpug]

How about the glow plug timer/relay box?? if you have no glow plug light on the dash I would try another one.

[shaunlfc1]

tried 4 different ones, all with same result!

[Donaldiesel]

Have you checked the earth wire from the glowplug relay/timer box to the car body? Rusty earth terminals can cause all kinds of elecrical problems, especially this time of year with damp mornings.

Also, listen to Frank. Fuses must test ok with a meter - not just 'seem fine'.

When the car stalled your partner had only got 20 yards. The engine would have still been cold and needed more preheat to restart. The timer is suposed to keep the glow plugs on for a few seconds after start up to aid combustion while the iron block soaks up the heat. My guess is that a corroded terminal shook loose when the engine started that fateful day.

Regards,
Donaldiesel

[frank]

you will have a permanant live and an earth also a live going to the the glow plugs, you should have an ignition live when you first swicth on. if you havnt got this then it wont work. did you check all the fuses with a test light or just look at them?

[shaunlfc1]

All I've done is look at the fuses none of them are blown from looking at them.

From what you are saying, just cos they look intact doesnt mean they are not faulty, which one of the fuses near the battery is the one that controls the pre-heat?

Should I trace all wiring from relay to glow plugs to check for damage and poor connection? Like I said the mechanic tested the relay/s and power was going to it, the problem seems to be post relay.

Im still not getting glow plug light in dash?

I'll probably go ahead and fit manual switch, any ideas on how easy this is, or whether there is a after market system I can buy?

Cheers.......

[frank]

you can fit a switch but only with a normal relay to pass the curent! just because the fuses look ok doesnt mean that there in one piece. you wont get a glow plug light if the relay isnt working and the wiring from the relay to the plugs wouldnt be the problem, just out of curiousity have you had a meter to the glow plugs when switching on just to make sure that it isnt the bulb in the dash that has just blown!! and that it isnt somthing else that is making it not start??

[shaunlfc1]

Hi,

Thanks for all your help.... should be borrowing a multimeter for the weekend, but have no real idea what im doing with it as never used one before.

I wanna test the fuses with it, how do I do that, what readings should I expect for a good and bad fuse?

Plus checking to see if power is getting to the GP's post relay, how do I test that, and again what readings to expect, or beeping noises!!?

Sorry to sound a complete novice with a multimeter, I just dont want this problem to take to much time to diagnose!!

Which one of the fuses by the battery is the one for the GP's. I noticed the other day that one had a bit of furr (corrosion) on it, could this be the problem?


Cheers again for all your help, much appreciated.

Have a good weekend all.....

[Donaldiesel]

"Thanks for all your help.... should be borrowing a multimeter for the weekend, but have no real idea what im doing with it as never used one before".

Does the person lending the multimeter know that? You can do a lot of damage if you don't connect it right. I suggest you borrow your friend complete with multimeter to show you how to do the tests. Continuity test for fuses. Continuity test for timer/relay earth to chassis (battery -ve), 12v dc +ve supply test to timer/relay, 12v dc ignition controlled +ve supply test to timer/relay, 12v dc +ve output to glowplugs.

Check your handbook to find out which fuse is for the timer/relay circuit. Corroded fuse terminals will certainly cause a problem. Disconnect the battery (after making a note of any radio code) and clean them to bright metal.

Regards,
Donaldiesel

[frank]

if you really dont know what your doing then i would advise getting an electrician to look at it for you. i have seen many cars go up in flames because of people messing about with the electrics

[shaunlfc1]

I was reading the Haynes again last night, and making a little sense of the wiring diagrams.

It mentioned on some models that the pre-heating system is linked to coolant temparature switch or relay, could this be my problem?

Mines the 1994 TD, so I suppose the later model, as the Haynes just mention early models, but what qualify's for early and late.

Should be trying out multimeter tomorrow, will keep you posted....

Cheers,

Shaun