205 cheetah 1.9 or 1.6 gti

[jollynik]

can anyone help ive just bought a 1986 205 cheetah. the log book says the engine is 1.9 . peugeot says they think its a 1.6 but if its been modified then they are not sure . I rang chathams (peugeot) in aldershot where it was modified and was told that anyone who might know stopped working there years ago. from the info ive been able to find , which is limited, i think the engine is 1.6 with larger pistons cranksaft and con rods.... Any ideas anyone ?

[Admin]

I think that you have a special edition car modified by Skip Brown in Yorkshire. They also did a Talbot Samba Cheetah a few years before that. The cars were not built by Peugeot but recognised as an aftermarket conversion that did not invalidate the cars warranty. Skip Brown have a long history of building Roots cars, particularly Sunbeams. You can find them on t'internet or call them on 01829720492

A skip brown conversion is going to be a very good car!

[chugchug]

Hi, Peugeot will think the car is a 1.6, they didn't make 1.9GTI then - it's an aftermarket conversion.

The Cheetah was developed by Charters - a Peugeot Dealer in Aldershot (they may still be around?), and was done by replacing the crankshaft, pistons & conrods with items out of the 1.9 unit that at the time was installed in the 305GTX & Citroen BX19GT. The only slight change was that they designed a swirl area into the top of the pistons. Apart from slightly harder front brake pads, everything else is absolutely standard 1.6GTI hardware - gearbox, suspension, the lot.

Although it added an extra 20bhp onto a 1.6GTIs output, due to using the same gearing etc it only slightly improved the 0-60 time (8.5s v. 8.7s) and top speed (117.5 v. 116mph) - the main benefit was mid range pull - being more flexible than every other GTI/XR3/MG out there.

It wasn't cheap at the time, the conversion work added £1265 onto the 1.6GTI price of £7145.
The only visible difference was some of the cars had stickers on the lower doors (either naff or retro depending upon your view) and "1.9" & "Cheetah" on the side strips on the C-pillar.

The same garage also previously released a Cheetah - that was a Talbot Sunbeam with 150bhp.

Later than the Sunbeam they released a Talbot Samba with 115bhp from its 1360cc engine. I think other Peugeot dealers sold them but they all came from Charters.

[Admin]

chugchug said:

Hi, Peugeot will think the car is a 1.6, they didn't make 1.9GTI then - it's an aftermarket conversion.

The Cheetah was developed by Charters - a Peugeot Dealer in Aldershot (they may still be around?), and was done by replacing the crankshaft, pistons & conrods with items out of the 1.9 unit that at the time was installed in the 305GTX & Citroen BX19GT. The only slight change was that they designed a swirl area into the top of the pistons. Apart from slightly harder front brake pads, everything else is absolutely standard 1.6GTI hardware - gearbox, suspension, the lot.

Although it added an extra 20bhp onto a 1.6GTIs output, due to using the same gearing etc it only slightly improved the 0-60 time (8.5s v. 8.7s) and top speed (117.5 v. 116mph) - the main benefit was mid range pull - being more flexible than every other GTI/XR3/MG out there.

It wasn't cheap at the time, the conversion work added £1265 onto the 1.6GTI price of £7145.
The only visible difference was some of the cars had stickers on the lower doors (either naff or retro depending upon your view) and "1.9" & "Cheetah" on the side strips on the C-pillar.

The same garage also previously released a Cheetah - that was a Talbot Sunbeam with 150bhp.

Later than the Sunbeam they released a Talbot Samba with 115bhp from its 1360cc engine. I think other Peugeot dealers sold them but they all came from Charters.

but I think all the engineering was done for them by Skip Brown.

Certainly the Samba cheetah was a quick car. In Europe the samba rallye gained a special cylinderhead that allowed the fitment of twin 40 dcoe's. It also used the much more free revving 1285cc version of the XY engine. Here in the UK Peugeot simply slapped rallye decals onto a Samba S, it was not quick. European Samba rallyes pushed out 80bhp in standard trim and the Samba Cheetah matched this, using the same parts but fitted to the 1360 engine which produces more torque but hates revs. My ZS uses this engine but with a full group B big valve head and a lot more mods as well, to achieve about 105-110bhp. Cetainly no samba cheetah actually managed much more than 90, whatever the manufacturer said.

Check out this pic. You can see the Charters logo on the side.

www.aussiefrogs.com/articles/205cheetah.htm

[Kitsune]

Over on the PSOOC members section is a back issue of the clubs magazine, Torque. One of which includes some info on this car. It was done in conjunction with Charters and Ravic Engineering, there is no mention of SBC, but I've only had a little flick though.

[chugchug]

I'm afraid I agree with Kitsune - Skip Brown (who he?) hasn't been linked with the Cheetah (and 104ZS's link to Car magazine makes no mention) although anything's possible with Charter's claiming the glory. I notice that the info. in there corresponded closely with my musings.

Is the Peugeot garage Charter's still trading, if so the bloke mentioned in the article may still be there - he'll be able to throw some light onto the subject.

While we're at it - I believe there's only been two Cheetah's, the Sunbeam & the 205 - the Samba wasn't 'renamed' was it? An output of 115bhp is certainly bloody good for a 1360cc, although dry sumping would certainly realease another few nags - what's its spec.? (I've never seen an article for it).

I know it was later but what did the 106Rallye (am I correct in the name?) produce in bhp?

As an aside, it's power to weight that's important and I assume that the Samba must weigh the same as a crisp bag - however you should try 950kg of Chevette with 220bhp - Cripes!!!

[jollynik]

thanks for all your help. i was slightly stuck as to what spares to get it , but now thats cleared up some of my questions.

[Admin]

I assumed that the 205 cheetah would have been SBC since the Samba and Sunbeam where. I guess since at the time Ravic were building engines fo rhte works rally teams then the Ravic connection would make sense.

[dud307]

Charters Peugeot of Aldershot deal massively with the Forces. They specialise in tax-free personal imports for soldiers and airmen posted overseas. They advertise quite heavily in the "Sixth-Sense" forces weekly newspaper. I heard about them only last week.

[205GRD]

they also now own a small chain of dealerships accross the area, the dealership in maidenhead is now a charters

[tich]

Easiest way of telling the differnce between a 1.9 or 1.6 engines is by the oil shims. The shims on a 1.9 are much thicker than that of a 1.6

[nightowls]

Yes, Ravic were building the 1.9 engine for Chambers of Aldershot, mine came from there. I did not know about the military connection, but figures being Aldershot. Ravic were based at one of the saloon car race tracks, where they had a not so big workshop and did their testing. Not quite sure where that was, definitely out in the sticks.

Chambers also used a "Cheetah" logo on the rear panels that was a more high-tech looking graphic, but I cant find a photo of it anywhere.

While on the subject some cars, probably just for test, it is rumoured got fitted with a Garrett supercharger (not a turbo) that could be switched in and out by the driver. That must have been some boost. Of course VW experimented for a bit with supercharged Golfs and Polo? I think that was also a Garrett unit. I cannot trace Garrett now, was a Scottish engineering firm? All you get is a Taiwan importer, if you Google.

Anyone know where there are based?

[oldpug]

Garrett say the UK distributors are www.btnturbo.com or www.owendevelopments.co.uk

[nightowls]

I will try them , see if the supercharger option was myth ot actually tested. Does anyone actualy have a photo of an Aldershot Cheetah?

[oldpug]

www.aussiefrogs.com/articles/205cheetah.htm

Have a look at this.