Tuning a 205 GTi 1.9

[dave23]

Hi there I am going to buy a 205 GTi very soon and have been told that tuning the engine can be a very hit and miss task depending on who you go to. I have red a lengthy and very informative guide on a tuners web page and it advises that some claims by the very established cam producers are not exactly true and some of the so called expert tuners give wiled claims of bhp figures after the work has been done and apparently one tuner in particular is renowned for not delivering what they say they can. This to be honest has made me a bit apprehensive as I don't want to waste my money on so called tuned items which wont put out for what I pay. I have also had a lengthy conversation with a company who told me that for 1120 quid I can have a fully gass flowed head and high lift cam with boost valve which should give around 150 to 160 bhp and with the addition of 45 DCOE carbs around 175 bhp. Simple part is........ am I being led up the garden path with this information? Need your help please.

[oldpug]

You have done some good research,you can get 175bhp and more? BUT everything has to be right.Be very careful before you spend your dosh,there are lots of crap on the market, there is no point in bolting a trick head &cam on without overhauling & balancing the crank,rods,pistons etc.In other words the whole engine."Breathing" is very important,a comp`exhaust manifold & system,alter the intake & reposition the air flow meter and re-chip the ECU by an expert.Carbs are a good idea as GTI engine electrics can be a problem.When we prepared GTI`s for the Peugeot rally championship in the 90`s the only engine to have was a SKIP BROWN one they will do anything with a peugeot engine.Give them a call on 01829720492 they are in Tarporley,they really know what they are doing, BUT you will want a lot more than £1120,all or nothing is what I say.

[dave23]

1120 is to start with but I'm sure I can already hear my walte whimpering lol.

I red that most of the after market systems you can buy can loose you horse power rather than help free any more up. I did read on this site that a Peugeot sport exhaust would be a good move and something about group A spec or Group N spec was said but I'm not sure what this means. Could some one enlighten me to this and where I can get my mits on one?

I want to go for carbs as I looked in to throttle bodies and relay it means more ECU's and computers which from my very first car 6 years ago have seemed to be a big pain in the bum and I prefer to tackle a car with a spanner not a PC with windows xp sooper what ever.

on speaking to my dad who is very much old school when it comes to tuning, he said carbs are what I want because they are good to use if a little temperamental and in his opinion sound far nicer and are a proven technology. Plus he used them on 850cc Mini's when he built them for collage rallying and got a phenomenal amount of power with their help so I guess he can set them up for me for free haha.

What I need, I guess is a point in the right direction of the best people to speak to and possibly some of the others to avoid as when it comes to pug's I must admit i don't know a lot about them other than 106 GTis are fast and the that some pugs are closely related to citrons.

So far it seems I'm on to a good start with a place to call and obviously the people who know their stuff so any further help would be very much appreciated as I'm pretty sure that a 205 GTi is the car for me.

[oldpug]

Skip Brown do a carb` conversion kit for the GTI.In simple terms in race & rally Group N is show room spec` & Group A is fully modified, there are all sorts of rules for each etc.Our GTI was Group N.you had to have a standard exh` manifold & front pipe from then on it was free,no centre box just a strait pipe to a small box at the rear.The other thing to remember when modifying is you will have to drive it in all sorts of conditions and traffic. A full blown Group A GTI would be a pig in normal traffic,stick to fast road conversions.

[Admin]

I'd go for Skip Brown too. The article you refer too was probably the one by Puma racing. Loaded with good sense and advice.
Group N cars were prepared to manufacturers standards so any extra power had to come from the best use of standard parts, while group A allowed for some modifications, enough ot make a full group A car not something you would drive in daily traffic. OldPug is right better to pay for a good skip B engine and enjoy th ecar than spend 6-700 and have a slower car.

read the article the story of BNG on the cpuk website, OldPug was involved in the original build of this car and the restoration.

[dave23]

This sounds like it will be expensive lol. How much does a Skip Brown engine cost?

I have driven a couple of 205's one was as best as I can describe an evo killer, it was just like sitting in a rocket with a chair and was pretty noisy but a laugh to drive and for me I could live with it. The other was fast and more refined which was also nice to drive but being a complete petrol head I guess the fast one would be my choice simply because It made me grin like a mad man.

I'm used to driving a car which is less than sympathetic to its driver as m last 2 cars have been highly tuned and I drive my dads Nissan Skyline a lot so I'm ok with the car being a pig at times.

I spoke to a company called Just GTis and the chap was very help full and seemed to know his stuff and you are right 104 the article I red was Puma racing.

Both of which were highly recommended by the guys at performance French cars magazine.

I spoke to a couple of the more modified car companies like Pug1off and to be honest got a very frosty response when I asked about their tuning recommendations.

So far it seems skip brown are the best to call so I will do so as soon as possible.

I may take some Valium just in case I ask for prices.

I was also told by a friend who works as a Peugeot mechanic that a 309 brooklands (think that is what he said) could be used for some nice parts if i find one that is bing broken for spars. Any ideas if this is correct?

Sorry for all the questions I just don't want to buy the car then mess it up.

[Admin]

He said Goodwood.


limited edition end of run special based on the 309 Gti but with leather insides and special coloured wheels and a wood steering wheel. Otherwise mechanically identical to any other 309Gti.

Some people fit 309GTi rear beams to their 205's because they are wider, other than that they are pretty much the same.
You'll pay a good price premium for a genuine Goodwood as they are very collectable so you're better off robbing parts from a standard GTi

Keep a good £1000 in your pocket when you talk to Skip Brown. You often get a frosty reception for companies when asking about tuning options because you will have been the 337th person that day to do so and they are busy tuning cars! Bigger companies have sales people to do this so they don't mind talking, one man bands (Pug One off) tend to be a bit busy.

[dave23]

Must say that 309 looks rather nice actually. Well as soon as I have a spare moment to call em I will be.

[richardcabba]

for the extra £500 you might as well look into a gti 6 conversion from 205 parts.com 175bhp cos there is no cats on the 205 and more torque than you could ever want

[chrisj205]

Trying to pull 175bhp from a 1.9 8v unit is,unless you have a good ten grand in your pocket, just not worth it,look at a gti6 conversion for 169bhp straight from the unit.then you can improve on that whilst keeping a good reliable car.
Im currently running my 1.9 8v race car at 147bhp with twin 45's and around £3000 spent at richard longman.If i were to prise much more power i would have an unreliable car.

Chris

[jock0909]

Oct 14, 2007 21:45:05 GMT dave23 said:

This sounds like it will be expensive lol. How much does a Skip Brown engine cost?

I spoke to a company called Just GTis and the chap was very help full and seemed to know his stuff and you are right 104 the article I red was Puma racing.

Sorry for all the questions I just don't want to buy the car then mess it up.

Personally I would stay away from justGTIs they say their x peugeot mechanics and talk a good job but in my opinion they are not great, the small amount of work they did for me was not up to my standards so I have not given them any work since, There's nothing worse than paying someone to work on your pride and joy only to find they have done a sub-standard job (mine had bolts missing/loose and parts/covers not fitted back on correctly)
I have looked at some of the cars they have for sale, they look ok on the surface to the untrained eye but well overpriced.

For a price comparison - I sold on ebay my 205 1.9GTI 1FM it was in very good original condition for £3000 the ebayer was very pleased.

My advice - think very carefully before deciding who's going to work on you car.

[Admin]

To add to this. At Castle Combe lst weekend I was very interested in a lovely looking 205GTi. Apart from looking just spot on it was busy absolutely annihilating a couple of Subaru's on the track. Now normally the best 205's can do this on the corners but this one was all over them down the straight too.

The secret, a 306 Gti6 engine and gearbox conversion. HAving seen this in action I can heartly recommend it.