504 Cabriolet

[bluecab]

Great to see a forum here! Having been a 304s owner for several years the arrival of a couple of kids gives me a great excuse to start thinking about a 504 cabriolet. Trouble is every time I look into them on the web I see terrible tales of rust and reliabilty (not on the CPUK site mind!). Any owners out there fancy giving me an honest appraisal? Could one be used as a daily driver?

[504V6Ti]

Yes, these cars are perfectly useable on a daily basis, but it isn't really cheap! Tender loving care is an absolute must and make sure you have a garage to keep it too so that it does not rust under your eyes in the street.

On the positive side, the 504 Coupé+Cabriolet are:
- eye catching
- pleasing to drive
- of a fairly modern design and fit perfectly in today's traffic/driving conditions
- roomy, comfortable and well equiped (specially series 2 and 3)
- very reliable (but 2.0l KugelFischer mechanical injection gets tricky with age and low maintenance). The 2.0l and V6 PRV engines are bullet proof.
- cheap to insure (I pay £90/yr, fully comp but limited to 3,000 miles)


On the negative side:
- performance is modest (even for the 144bhp V6 Ti model), they are nice cruisers not sports cars
- they are terribly prone to rust (so only buy a very good original one or a well restored one - South of France origin is always a plus)
- fuel consumption is high (especially the V6 carb version) by today's standards
- body/interior and some mechanical parts are a struggle to find and can cost a fortune (eg: £600 for a KugelFischer injection pump, £500 for a series 2/3 front headlamp)
- HardTop for Cabs are expensive
- Left hand drive only (only a handful of Series 1 504cc were converted to right hand drive)

I own a Coupé V6Ti and I just love it. I have spent a little fortune on spare parts (some to replace worn/broken ones, most for stock) and continue to do so, but I think the car is worth it.

Good Cabriolet are expensive to buy and I can only recommend to walk away from buckets; you'd just ruin yourself. Good cabs cost between €9k and €12k on the continent (sometimes more, but it's crazy), the most expensive ones being the V6, with only 974 of them manufactured between 74 and 77. Be prepared to spend a lot of money of fuel if you get a V6 Cab to use on a daily basis. There was no Cab with the V6 injection engine.

I would not try to find one in the UK where they are quite rare. Instead look for your cab on the continent, Germany and France being the best sources of supply. You will find what you want on ebay.fr, ebay.de, 504cc.com, 504.org or autoscout.fr, to name a few, for a budget of £6k to £8k. I would not pay more...

Stay clear of Kurt Orbie in Belgium (www.peugeot-504-cc.com, lisa.70 & stille_genetier on ebay). I have observed the character for several years and he really is nothing short of a speculator (on both cars and parts). Buying a car from him would set you back at least €15k and he'd probably double his money on you. He has also reached fame on ebay for grabbing anything on offer at any cost. He then offers his stock (which is quite significant) at premium rate (on ebay, he sometimes buys items off himself from one ebay account to another if the price isn't high enough)!

Don't be put off by high mileage. Your chances of a low mileage 504cc are pretty negligeable anyway for cars that are between 35 and 21 years old. 2.0l engines can go in excess of 160k miles and a lot more for the V6 engine.

You've mentionned kids. No back seat problems here, the cars can transport kids in comfort and the boot is big enough. However, only models from 1979 had rear seat belts fitted as standard. You can retro-fit belts on earlier models if needed as mounting points do exist.

Good luck and prepare to be patient...

[bluecab]

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. The search is on! I've imported from Belgium before which was a fairly simple task as it was a new car with a certificate of conformity. Do you think a secondhand import would be more complicated? Is this how you got your car?

[504V6Ti]

I imported mine from Monaco.

It was very easy to register it in Britain and probably similar to the process for a new import.

You just need the registration application form from your local DVLA office. Fill in details that appear on the original registration document that you obtain with your car (eg: from the grey card if French import); things like serial number/chassis number, engine number, colour, seating capacity, engine size, energy type or date of manufacture. Send the form to the DVLA with your original reg papers. They will first issue you with a UK reg number to get British plates, followed by British registration papers a few weeks later.

There is a small fee to pay, but I can't remember how much, about £40 if memory serves me right.

I first got mine MOT'ed, Taxed and insured against the serial/chassis number as opposed to the temporary Monaco exit number, then got it registered. Once I received my registration number, I updated the Insurance Company and got plates made.

It was a nice and easy process as far as I am concerned and I do not remember anything about a certificate of conformity at all. I kept a copy of all paperwork somewhere, so I'll look it up this week-end and will let you know.

[bluecab]

Thanks for that. I'll look into it with the DVLA.

[nickb]

Interested to hear about numbers of RHD 504 cc's that were converted. I have recently purchased one of 1973 vintage and I seem to think there is an under bonnet plate telling of its conversion in in the UK.

Thanks

[504V6Ti]

Only a handful of 1st series 504cc (69-74) were converted. This was done by a UK company called Hodec, who were the official Peugeot converter and at a cost of about £400 at that time. It appeared too difficult to fit a conversion around the V6 engines, so once this model was introduced in Oct 74, conversions stopped. I don't believe there were any further conversion once the 2.0l model was re-introduced in 77.

I think that 504 specialist John Fox might have done some conversion too, but I am not 100% certain.

Right hand drive are a very rare sight indeed. I've seen 2 or 3 on ebay in the last couple of years, all in a rather sad state...

The conversion of a 2.0l model does not appear too difficult. The instrument panel and glove box are swappable and there are modifications to make under the dashboad and a hole to cut for the steering rack. You can get excellent details of the operation on Brent Lord's web site: www.504coupe.150m.com/workshop/rhd/righthand_drive.htm

He has also done a conversion for somebody else and it looks pretty good.

[nickb]

Yes, i'm pretty sure mine's a Hodec conversion (can't see the plate at present its at the garage). Any ideas of numbers converted? What sort of value premium would this attract?

[504V6Ti]

It is always a plus to have a RHD in the UK, but don't expect your car to hold extra value for that. While they are a rarity, they were limited to the 1st series which is not the most desirable, statistically speaking (ok, the 4 headlamps face and the rear lights are very elegant, but interior a bit poor). Personal opinions might defer, but most prospective buyers these days are after the V6 models or the post 1977 4cyl for their much improved interior and the revised engine. They also had slightly better rust protection at factory and did not melt away as rapidly as the 1st series tended to...

[504V6Ti]

Hi Bluecab, I've looked at my paperwork. You'll need to check with the DVLA in case the legislation has changed, but here is what I required in July 2002 when I brought my car to the UK:

- the original registration document ("carte grise" in my case)
- DVLA application form V55/5
- Cheque for registration fee of £25
- Cheque for Road Tax
- MOT certificate
- Self-declaration VAT form 414 (for EU imports)
- ownership certificate (bill of sale)
- insurance certificate

At the time of my import, I got a guide from the Department of Transport (P13 dated May 2000). It explained what was required to import a vehicle in the country. The document stipulated 5 different kinds of import:
1) vehicles manufactured more than 10years ago
2) caravans or ambulances
3) vehicles up to 10 years old from the EU
4) vehicles up to 10 years old from Northen Ireland, Channel Islands or the Isle of Man
4) vehicles up to 10 years old from other countries

Mine (and potentially yours) fitted in the 1st category, for which there is no requirement to provide a certificate of conformity of any kind. You just need the car MOT'ed, that's it.

On DVLA form V55/5, I filled the following sections:
Country purchased from (Monaco)
LHD/RHD (LHD)
Date of 1st registration abroad (eg: 01/01/80)
2. Taxation class (PLG)
5. Make (Peugeot)
6. Model (504 Coupe)
7. Type of body (Coupe)
8. Wheelplan (2 rigids)
9. Colour (Green)
10. Type approval number (N/A personal import)
16. Seating capacity (4)
20. Year or manufacture (1980)
22. Type of fuel (Petrol)
23. VIN/Chassis nb (eg: 1234567898)
24. Engine nb (eg: 123456)
26. Cylinder capacity (2664)
33. Details of owner (name, address, postcode)
37. Mileage at time of registration in GB (in miles, not Km)

On VAT form 414, I entered my name and address details (as registered keeper) and type of use (private), then:
- Make
- Model
- Drive (LHD/RHD)
- Chassis nb
- Current reg nb (from country of origin)
- Country of 1st reg
- Date of 1st reg
- Date of arrival in the UK
- Mileage (in miles AND kilometers)
- No acquisition VAT to be accounted for
- VAT number of trader bought from (if applicable)
- Traders name and address (if applicable)

For details of acquirer, I just referred to the details entered for the registered keeper. There was no import duty to pay as it was a 22year old, 2nd hand private vehicle.

That's it. I dropped all the above at my local VRO where a chap checked it all and gave me the Okay. I think I got a letter from DVLA within a week with my registration number.

The only modification I had to make (for the MOT) was the installation of a rear fog light (necessary for all cars first used after 01/04/1980).

[bluecab]

Thanks for the info. Looks pretty similar to bringing a new car in. I'm keeping an eye out for a good one. The prices really do vary on them. I'll need to get the 304 up to scratch and sold before I can even think about it so I'm in no rush!

[504gld]

When I bought the 504GL, the chap also had a RHD converted 504CC and 504 V6 Coupe rally car. I believe they were both for sale, and reasonably tidy. The advert for the 504 I bought was in Jul04 CPUK magazine/internet, his name was Andy on 01249 652946. When I bought mine he showed me them saying they were for sale.