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Post by Admin on Oct 11, 2005 12:41:50 GMT
There are quite a few differences between thetwo cars, more than just the nice 1.9 alloys.
Before gaining a catalyser the 1.9 Gti thumped out 130bhp compared to the 115 of the 1.6. This meant a top speed of 128mph rather than 118 and 1.7 secs of the 0-60 time.
1.9's were generally more civilised cars with slightly softer suspension and rear disc brakes. They also had longer gear ratios, making the whole car less buzzy and relying on the extra torque of the 1.9 engine to pull the car along between gears.
The 1.6 is generally considered the more complete drivers car and the ultimate hot hatch. Even now many 205 gti drivers will not upgrade to 206's etc, or if the do will keep the 205 for fun!
Either version is certainly not just another old runabout. The 205 GTi is a car everyone should own once in their lives and at the current prices it's good value too.
Many people fit the 16v head from the 405 Mi16 to their cars for totally surreal performance, but that's another ball game.
Non chavv'd 205's are getting hard to find and a spotless 1.6 or 1.9 will probably go up in value from now on.
I too have owned a dolomite sprint and the 205 kicks its arse completely. IMHO the sprints handling never lived up to the oomph. Much more a tourer than a sports car.
Reliability - well it's a 20 year old Peugeot. You takes your chance!.
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matthew
Postman Pat
405stdt/205gti/504rotbox
Posts: 20
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Post by matthew on Oct 11, 2005 15:04:29 GMT
Hi,104 zs just about covered it,i found the 1.6 a little easier to drive round town as the power seemed more accessible low down but you can hold the 1.9 in the gears longer then it really shifts.You may also find the handling different between the two as the front and rear track width is different aswell plus the brakes are better on the 1.9 so if insurance and mpg is no problem go for the 1.9,Ive had mine 8 years now and will never sell it!
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Post by 504gld on Oct 11, 2005 18:31:16 GMT
Another less obvious difference is that the 1.9GTI also had Automatic available, and air con.. there is a tasty red one on ebay now, and thats a factory model - these are really rare now. The 205 Gentry models also were rather nice, with 1.9 engines, mostly auto but some manuals around, leather, 405GTX style alloys, body mouldings, but all in a champagne colour, kick off around £500 now and are low insurance compared to the Gti.
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Post by chugchug on Oct 11, 2005 20:04:41 GMT
Unfortunately the 3 speed auto crucified the performance - it ended up midway between a 1.4 & 1.6!
AND before anyone starts crying, I know I'm just on about straight line figures and that I haven't considered flexibility and differing driving qualities of an good auto (not that Peugeot but a good autobox in the 205).
Coupled to different suspension, unfortunately the Gentry is anything but a GTi alternative - think of it as more of a curio.
No-one yet mentioned it's on-limit handling. Up to it it's great, at it it's terrifying - unless you like 'snap' oversteer in a front wheel drive car. After saying that it was probably the best GTi of its time, being a little more fun than the Golf.
The final problem though is that the newest must be 15years old, and that can be one hell of a lot of abuse!
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Post by chugchug on Oct 11, 2005 20:07:06 GMT
PS. what's all this talk of Triumph Dolomites?  Will you be taking tartan rugs & Thermos's to the NEC? ;D |
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Post by Admin on Oct 12, 2005 7:48:28 GMT
A great thread and some inteesting points, but not technical. Moving to the main board
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Post by Admin on Oct 12, 2005 14:18:25 GMT
Prices for 205 GTi's are all over the place a the moment. Some people view tham as old c ars so you can pick up a nice one cheap, while others think it's already a bona fide classic and offer real dogs for thousands. In reality spending around £1500 should see you right while a real minter might cost you over £2500. I think on balance I'd get a 1.6. Interestingly though you mention it in jest, very few 205 GTi's came with power steering, and a lot of older gents have been selling their minty cars as they can no longer manage the steering at parking speeds!!
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Post by chugchug on Oct 12, 2005 16:26:34 GMT
Wow..this is just the advice I was after. Motor magazines never really cover it. I'm getting a 205 GTi 1.9. You're right though, it's blooming difficult to get a non-chavved one. I'm looking for one that's been owned by a responsible adult since new in 1991, preferably a grandad who accidently bought the GTi because he liked the colour!! Is insurance that bad then? ..and, would it be embarrassed by an Imprezza or a Civic Type R ? I'm just curious, I don't really care about actual speed, it's sense of speed that matters. I've also owned a Golf IV GTTDi PD 150 (it used to knock cyclists off with the name sticking out of the back !!) and that was super-quick but it just meant you got there faster. It didn't feel any more enjoyable to drive than my mate's Panda 1000 believe it or not. How much would you pay for an original, mint 205 GTi 1.9? Sorry..It's not technical is it? I'd expect insurance to be pretty good - unless you're 21, have had a few crashes live in a dodgy area. If it'd be a second car some of the GTis will qualify for classis insurance and so long as you've got some no-claims on the main car then they'd 'mirror' it. As for getting embarrassed by a well driven Impreza - aren't most things (unfortunately)! And as for VW's - I've yet to drive a fun one. You've hit the nail on the head with the driver enjoyment factor - speed has little to do with it. Can you imagine what sort of grey porridge the W8 4.0ltr Passat is/was? It must shift reasonably well but just picture it on a back road, all slop & nil steering feel. I already feel sea-sick. |
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Post by Admin on Oct 12, 2005 17:11:24 GMT
And as for VW's - I've yet to drive a fun one. You've hit the nail on the head with the driver enjoyment factor - speed has little to do with it. Can you imagine what sort of grey porridge the W8 4.0ltr Passat is/was? It must shift reasonably well but just picture it on a back road, all slop & nil steering feel. I already feel sea-sick. Well my day car is a mark 4 golf GTi 1.8 turbo. 150bhp of raw sleeping tablet. It's a good car, comfy, reasonably economical and reliable (ish) but as exciting as a weekend in eastbourne with your granny! Very definately NOT a GTi. Probably only the Mk1 golf GTi comes close to being a drivers car on a par with the 205, and only then because it got there first and people were so surprised by it. Luckily I have the ZS for weekends! |
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Post by Piston Broke on Oct 14, 2005 18:28:46 GMT
I always preferred the revvy and eager feel of the later 115 brake 1.6 to the 1.9, which was gruntier but not as much of a larf. Drive a good example of each back to back and you'll know what I mean.
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Post by Piston Broke on Oct 14, 2005 18:33:46 GMT
As for getting embarrassed by a well driven Impreza - aren't most things (unfortunately)! Yes, in between £1500 at time transfer box failures, piston slap, indistinct understeery handling on the cooking versions etc. That's if the d**n scooby will start at all cos of the flaky alarms affected by other transmitters, mobile phone masts, Terry Wogan etc. I though my old Integrales were fragile, but my edition McRae scooby was positively osteoporotic in comparison, and not even near same performance league as the EVO/II Inter for twice the money. Duh. |
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Kitsune
Poster boy
Pugs N Dubs
Posts: 68
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Post by Kitsune on Oct 26, 2005 11:31:12 GMT
Dont forget the earlier 105bhp 1.6, as no-one has mentioned it, stay away. The Gentry also uses a 115bhp 1.9 engine.
No-one puts a 405 Mi head in their 205, they put the whole engine in as the head swap is not straightforward. This is now the norm and with a tuned Mi, prepare to rattle a few of the big boys. Its well worth taking an Mi out for a spin to compare it against the 8v. Theres talk that the Mi is underpowered/undertorqued till it kicks in around 4k rpm, but due to the weight, this isnt an issue, and whereas a standard 8v will run out of steam not long after (limiter at 6250?) the 16v carries on to above 7k and can be good for 8-9k with solid lifters, ARP bolts and forged pistons. The Mi will hold its value very well though, easily around the £4k+ mark, whereas a completely mint 8v wont be worth no-where near as much unless it really is mint with low miles, fsh etc. They are getting rare and alot on the road carry battle scars which brings the value down straight away. Hence my 3 straight shells!
Also the 1.6 was slightly wider at the front but not as wide at the back. The common change here is to go to the 309 set up, rear beam, front lower arms and driveshafts
Taking a step back, i've owned a few 205s and also currently have a Mk1 dub and yes, the drive is similar, but in a way totally different. I think my choice would be the 205 over the Mk1, mostly because the steering feel is not as direct as you'd expect and design faults really let it down. Brakes for example.
205 is Grp14-15 on insurance.
And on the road/in a straight line, yes the CTR and scoob will put ends to an 8v, but on twisties and especially on the track, well, how many people have seen an 8v wipe the smile off a skylines drivers face at Silverstone? Ok so the 8v had nearly 190bhp, but it shows it can be done.
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Post by unimexsol on Nov 1, 2005 16:00:30 GMT
1.9 for me. I really enjoyed the 1.6 that I had and it was superb fun. The 1.9 however is more than fun, it's brilliant. Unfortunately I'm selling my 1.9 now (see For Sale forum) to fund the restoration of two CTi's (go ahead with the hairdresser jokes).
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Post by jakesalter on Dec 29, 2005 22:35:11 GMT
1.9's were generally more civilised cars with slightly softer suspension and rear disc brakes. They also had longer gear ratios, making the whole car less buzzy and relying on the extra torque of the 1.9 engine to pull the car along between gears. 1.6 like driving a skateboard.. 1.9 like driving a rocket powered Chieftan Tank.. Hope enjoyed my highly technical comparison there! |
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Post by jakesalter on Jan 1, 2006 14:35:10 GMT
Dont forget the earlier 105bhp 1.6, as no-one has mentioned it, stay away. Why stay away? My 205 has this engine which has done 77000 miles. With oil changes every 3000 miles I can see no reason why it wont go on. Surely an original 205 GTI with xu5j engine is the purest of the breed..  |
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